Sand Witch

January 10, 2011

Alright, new comic’s finally freaking done. Definitely wanted this finished last week, but i unfortunately ran into my usual bad-work-habits-paralzing-fear-completely-rewrite-the-entire-thing-halfway-through deal, so apologies for the delay. Goddamn feels good to finally get the year rolling, in any case, so happy new year to y’alls for sure.


Yes! One of the Heroes out there sent in a tribute kinda comic, as seen here, so cheers to Rex for that! I love it. Always honored when someone likes my ol’ stuff enough to do such a thing.

see you soon, hopefully,


107 Responses to “Sand Witch”

  1. Will Says:

    Sometimes communication is such a challenging thing, even for the gifted…

    • vlad Says:

      especially for the gifted. you know how annoying it is to have people look awkwardly at you and ask you what you meant? and after 30 minutes to hear them say:”oooh but we didn’t know about elements x y and z that made the joke work”? seriously, can’t you people diverge your train of thought to comprehend more than one meaning of what is being said and then based on body language figure out which of them fits best?

    • Will Says:

      maybe get smarter friends? πŸ˜‰

    • vlad Says:

      there are less than 50 millionpeople as smart or smarter. cut down 60% for not speaking the same languages, at least 80% of that for not sharing my interests and another 70% of that for having personalities that piss me off[the number is directly proportionate to iq for some reason] and that leaves me with few people scattered around the globe. I take what I can get.

    • Joe Says:

      Smarter friends? Where do you find those?

    • A. O. Moss Says:

      Vlad, your numbers are off. That leaves you with 2.8 million potential friends. Not a handful by any account.

    • vlad Says:

      that’s 0.04% of the population that is thenically equally distributed [or close to it anyway] in 18.6 million square Km.

    • Dan Says:

      You could try getting over yourself.

    • Will Says:

      lol I didn’t want to be the one who said it, Dan. Thanks for that. Vlad, to did come off a bit pretentious. Just saying, that could be part of your problem

    • Will Says:

      I’m sorry if that came out rude, I didn’t mean to insult anyone. It’s just kind of a pet peeve of mine when people complain about how “stupid” people don’t “get” how intelligent they are. It seems to me that if you can’t make yourself understood, then it really doesn’t matter how gifted you are… OMG YOU ARE THE SANDWITCH!!! Kind of puts this comic in a whole new light… I love parallels

    • vlad Says:

      see what i mean. people don’t get attempts at communication.

    • Spanky Says:

      Yes, Vlad, we see what you mean – you don’t express yourself very well.

      And even if one is striving to understand the general thrust of what you’re saying, going by the limited evidence above it seems you have great difficulty making a cogent argument.

      From the ’50 millionpeople’ figure given, you estimate yourself to be in the top 0.75% of the world for intelligence (or possibly just ‘giftedness’). Fascinating. Perhaps that’s worth returning to; perhaps not.

      If you’re paring that figure down to those who share your language(s), then they won’t be evenly distributed across the world, they’ll be quite heavily concentrated in certain areas (i.e. mostly the countries that use the language(s) in question).

      Next, you lose another 80% of the notional total due to people not sharing your interests. Not to make a value judgement, if you were as intelligent and/or gifted as you seem to think, you might have a wider range of interests, which would allow you to enage in meaningful conversation with a wider range of people. Furthermore, the truly gifted are often able to discuss subjects that are not within their specific range of interests, simply because they have some understanding of how the world fits together and how all subjects and topics are related on some level. Autistic geniuses often have the problem of enormous knowledge of one or two subjects, yet little else, and the more serious problem (in terms of communicating with others) of being unable to conceive how other people could not share their fascination with topic x,y or z.

      Complaining that most of the other highly gifted people on the planet don’t share your interests smacks of a cop-out.

      Your third point makes no sense at all. After paring down the world population to such tiny fractions, you write off another 70% (of people nearby, who are as gifted as you and share your language and interests) because they ‘piss [you] off’. That’s absurd by itself, and when you mention that the ratio seems ‘directly proportionate to IQ’ it makes me think you’ve forgotten that you’d already reduced this section of humanity to people ‘as smart or smarter’ than you. Unless you mean that the higher their IQ, the more likely they are to piss you off?

      Sorry if I’m misreading your carefully chosen words. I can’t see your body language and therefore it’s unable to modify the subtext of what you wrote.

      Sorry also if I seem to be coming down too hard on you, but your initial statement and the followups seem like self-important whining rather than the lament of a misunderstood genius. There’s probably a very good reason people can’t be bothered interpreting your deeper meaning.

      I tried, and look where it got me…

    • Rooster Says:

      All I can say is that your comics are amazing I always look forward to them,
      I don’t know but I think everyone has had one of these moments when you want to impress that person, but feel completely unnoticed

  2. JCBS Says:

    This is deep.

  3. Danielle Says:

    Sometimes the nicest people are the most introverted…to obtain their friendship one has to be willing to give them time. But if they are allowed to take their time, their friendship will prove to be truly priceless…

  4. Bill W Says:

    Happy New Year

  5. fishboy Says:

    This makes me sad. Well played Rountree, well played.

  6. Jason Says:

    Not sure I got it, but I suppose Danielle is right.

    Is there a definition of “antimony” I’m not aware of?

    • Rex Says:

      there’s just the rock and the tautological absurdity, right?

    • Jason Says:

      Well no. Last night I couldn’t find a definition of “antimony” as a paradox or anything like that. Today I figured out why: the proper spelling of that word is antiNoMy (a word which I obviously was not aware of before).

  7. Bonnie Says:

    I like your ending, after such a silly initial taste with the title.

    One thing I don’t understand is how she got the water into the separate letters as they’re not connected like they would be in a stencil.
    Suppose that’s the sandwitchcraft part of this.

  8. Dave Says:

    Fuck Rowntree. I know this advice likely won’t hit your brain where it needs to, but get over the bullshit fear thing.

    Not everything you do needs to be some great epic fucking social commentary. You do well enough in the short form.

    If you’re starting to worry about not updating often enough again, just start taking stuff like some of the more recent mega-updates and toss them to us every now and then like doggy treats.

    You don’t have to give so much a fuck about how we feel, just try and keep up the good work. You’ve got a strong voice, good art etc. and now you’re in with topatoco. I can’t imagine life’s going too bad for you and worrying about the bullshit people who read your stuff is crazy.

    I get the anxiety thing too, but if you keep on letting it bug you I’m afraid you’re gonna end up being one of those guys who whines about not being good enough too much and letting that actually cripple your ability to just be, do your thing, whatever it is, and give me nifty shit to read every now and then.

    @Bonnie: Ever been to a beach when the tide rolls in..? Yeah. :p

    • dave Says:


    • I have to second this. In between updates sometimes I will go back and look at the short strips of old… you’re forcing yourself to get longer and more complex, and I think that may be building it’s own anxieties. Will it be good enough? Will they like it? If I don’t perform up to their standards, what then?

      Screw all that. You are a webcartoonist. You do this for yourself- the fans are nice and the sales and donations help, but really, you pour all of this work in because you want to, not for anyone or anything else. So let yourself do some short strips- Gary Larsen was the master of the one panel gag, for crissakes, and nobody complained of brevity. Do the things that you like, but allow yourself to do some that you may not think are good enough or deep enough or whatever reason your mind can concoct to convince you to give in to your fears and insecurities.

      Breathe. Write. Draw. And express yourself, for weal or woe, and if we like it, great. If we don’t, well, we’re welcome to hang our shingle at Keenspot and get started ourselves and show you right up, ain’t we?

      Sabrina Pandora
      Listening to her own advice today and getting some writing done

    • Ben Says:

      Amen. Bit harsher than I’d put it but he’s right. You’re phenomenal. Anxiety is a huge issue for me as well (I went to a house party once. My friends found me having a panic attack in the basement. Party brah!) but as a writer and a person I’m trying to come to terms with a sense of confidence. Do the same, you’re far more talented than a lot of shit comic artists.

    • DNTMEE Says:

      I think much of the anxiety comes from the one-shot nature of his comics. Yes, Larsen only had one shot to get his point across as well, but Winston is out to tell a story, not a simple gag. Other cartoonists have the luxury of the story arc and can modify as needed as things progress. Here, the whole thing is thrown out at once. No chance to do more, or better ot modify over time as a better idea hits while you’re doing the story arc.

    • Dave: You said some stuff there that i definitely needed to hear, i reckon. So cheers.

      Cheers to all of you^, that is. I promise to be less whiny in 2011. Up the stairs towards Something Better…

  9. Rex Says:

    premise: how can rowntree avoid having to think about drawing witty billboards for one fortnight? BEACH.

    communication gaps…huh, reminds me of when i was back on dialup.

  10. DoubleW Says:

    If you’re really afraid of not updating on time, you could always do the Scott Adams method and just constantly produce stuff and editing out things that aren’t worthy.
    But I don’t know your creative process enough. Maybe you need the pressure. I don’t know. Just know that your short form strips are pretty excellent and are how I was introduced to this site to begin with.
    Fear is what you make of it.

  11. Vole Says:

    I like imagining her as Glinda’s sister. She’s the weird one.

  12. Wornrtee Says:

    So little text… it’s creepy!

  13. GerryB Says:

    I think we’ve all been in that chasm between 3:40pm and 7:20am coming up with the sparkliest possible first-contact response. Then finding that the words’ve gone on strike (even the alt-text!).

    Very much feeling the Sa(n)dwitch’s sighs here.

  14. anonymous Says:

    Another quality comic. Happy new year. πŸ˜€

  15. Edwin Says:

    Nice one, at the end i was thinking she was going to create a mini beach with mini people she could control kind like voodoo. I was happily wrong.

  16. Jonathan Erh Says:

    The word is antinomy. See also antinomian, antinomianism.

  17. Maggyboy Says:

    Too many words. 😦

  18. rick Says:

    That file would have to be way, way smaller as a PNG.

  19. Leo .W Says:

    That noise you all just heard was my mind being blown. Nice and cheerful, as always.

  20. sfury Says:


  21. Leak Says:

    “sudo make me a sand witch” as interpreted by one Winston Rowntree?

    np: Autechre – Keynell (Mix 2) (Keynell (AE Mixes))

  22. Ben Says:

    Sometimes I start reading a Subnormality knowing it’s going to make me melancholy…. “Sigh” indeed! Interested in the witch though, good to see a new face round these parts. ^_^

  23. Ollygirl Says:

    really like the shorter comics; theyre just as thought provoking as the long ones, and just as beautiful πŸ™‚ as always, great artwork and a lovely concept πŸ™‚

  24. DaveB Says:

    Nice one, WR. Yeah, I get the creative anxiety thing, but you have a following here. By definition, your die-hard fans mostly do get it and we’re okay with you doing what you do at your own pace. When I check your site and find a new comic posted, it’s like finding twenty dollars in the pocket of an old pair of jeans. Happy New Year.

  25. Esn Says:

    Yep… this is what artists do, unfortunately…

  26. Ancillary Character Says:

    Saw the Qotsa shirt…sneaky.

  27. Sheedy Says:

    Lovely. Just lovely. Keep it up – this is by a distance the best webcomic on the internet (tautologies rule).

  28. Will Says:

    So is this lack of text going to be a new phase for you as an artist? I can dig that.

  29. Peter Says:

    Aww… That’s so sad…

  30. Tyler Says:

    Hi Winston, I’ve been a fan of your comics for a couple of years now but this is the first time I’ve ever commented on your blog. For some reason after I saw today’s comic I was just interested in what people would have to say about it, and frankly after I got about halfway through this desperate urge to say something encouraging came up.

    I think it was the chain of comments following “Dave” and his “Fuck Rowntree” little diatribe.

    Geez. Thanks Dave. I feel like he was writing that to ME when I read it. I don’t even know how to combat something like that. I’m not trying to be like condescending or anything it’s just that yeah, I have these crazy little head games with myself over my creative efforts and presenting them to the public and the last thing someone who does creative work is to hear someone cut them down over their own thoughts about it. I mean the work is supposed to speak for itself. Artists, whatever, creative people, we often have different priorities than pouring all of our efforts into out public persona, or how we present ourselves, I dunno, just social interaction in general. I guess I just think of myself and how I remain to this day at the age of 23 very introverted and social interaction is never something that I’m completely comfortable with. I overthink, worry, bite my nails, and generally turn almost every little thing that goes on in my life sometimes into this freaking cosmic drama. The thing is my friends, the people who really love me for who I am, they know that it just comes with the territory, and no matter what I might think or say about the songs I write or the pictures I paint, they can look past it to see something beautiful.

    And I guess there is something in this comic maybe that has me wanting to say that to you. The Sand Witch, I can totally relate!

    What I feel I can offer people, whatever that may be, is generally now what people are used to getting. I put a lot of thought into getting to know someone, I want to get deeper, connect on some more significant level, and it takes TIME. But I get passed over more often than my more charismatic friends for that reason. I guess it’s a trade-off, quality not quantity, something like that.

    I don’t want to downplay the worth of your comics as a forum for some kind of higher awareness or illumination or simply just a voice of reason and much needed levity, because they are very much that thing, but I guess what I’m saying is that TO ME, your comics just make me feel less alone for being the way I am. I read them and I’m just like “hell yeah we can do this.” Something like that.

    You aren’t just a light in the dark, Mr. Rowntree, you are fuel on a fire and a hug when I’ve needed one most.

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

    p.s. “just don’t it”

    • Abel Says:

      I’ve read ’em all. And I’m not a webcomics fan. The only two I read with delicious appetite are this, and (Which I found out about through this site) What they both have in common is some interesting story telling.

      What Rowntree (what YOU SIR seem to do) is the opposite of what the lady in this comic seems to be able to do. You wrestle and visualize and capture all of these difficult to put-in-to-any-form of coherent form of dispensible/consumable/transmittable communication and make them colorful, poignant posters. Most noteably the “A dinner in the future/Stairs” comic that talked about how we can all move one step at a time ANYWHERE. There’s a lot that can be extrapolated from that one. . .

      I’m always surprised at the really honest sort of communication and story telling that happens in these comics. There’s no substitute for a good story, especially one which you can meditate on, and learn from. E-s-p-e-c-i-a-l-l-y one that highlights some of those negative spaces that pop up in the midst of everything, with characters that perfectly embody them. And give a very INVITING glimpse at people who may, for many reasons, feel underrepresentated, alienated, or alone. And even find ways to show it in the MOST unexpected places like the “VIDEO GAMES comic” where even Lara Croft can be fucked up.

      I wrote this as a reply to Tyler, becuase this comic totally seemed to speak to you sir. I used to suffer from severe anxiety, and had a lot of social problems (precipitated by all sorts of famiiy stuff, of course) I’ve basically come out of a 20 year long panic attack over the past several years.

      The world I lived in seemed so real, that I used to tell friends that overcoming anxiety was like trying to learn to walk through walls. How much education would I need to believe that I could walk through these walls? Or how much learning is needed to significantly “shake” my reality? A lot.

      Getting started is difficult, and anything that can help that process along for anyone, whether it’s medication, a good story, someone who understands, or like the GOAT that “Does it anyway” (despite being afraid.) And it seems that Rowntree (You sir) seems to provide a pretty lush and consistent amount of content that falls in that very valuable, very needed category!!!

      Anyway, sorry for MY wall of text. Just sayin’

    • Joe Says:

      I’m pretty sure that the guy who said “Fuck Rowntree” actually meant to say “Fuck, Rowntree”. Thus quite effectively demonstrating the amount of difference a comma can make.

    • Thanks you guys. Hell yeah we CAN do this!

      And you there, this is the wrong place to apologize for walls of text! And that walk through walls analogy is genius, by the way. Whatever people tell me they’ve gotten out of my comix, i’ve gotten back from the audience like 100x that, and i’m non-secretly eternally grateful to all of you.

    • Dave Says:

      @Joe: Yeah, kind of what I should’ve typed but I typed it like i would’ve spoke it… wasn’t someone saying something about communication issues?

      @Tyler: Hell, half the reason I said it is because it’s what I wish someone had said something like it to me so many times. I think one of the first times I commented was to offer the man some encouragement, but I’ve found that sometimes just being reminded I’m being stupid does wonders. πŸ™‚
      Seriously though, what you had to say was almost as valuable as my regular dose of comix.

  31. Abel Says:

    For some reason this comic, (and the awesome discussion your blog/comics always seem to spark), reminded me of this one : “Bernard.”

    This one feels pretty open to interpretation.

  32. RichoVonBlack Says:

    “you can buy style but you can never buy class”, good work my friend, good work,

  33. Leo W. Says:

    I keep on reading this over and over again and it is so sad. This one of the most depressing things I’ve ever read. One of your best comics yet, Rountree.

  34. spriteless Says:

    Typical of an extravert to assume the introvert is just trying to say hello.

    But I forgive you because it’s pretty. Those who do try to say hello can be very interesting. : )

    • Joe Says:

      hmm. Some of us just don’t know how to say hello. Some of us are just afraid to.

    • Jason Says:

      I’ve read a lot of Winston’s strips (and blog posts and comments), and I’m pretty sure he’s not an extravert. Perhaps “hello” doesn’t _quite_ express what the introvert is trying to say. Or perhaps there are different kinds of introverts.

  35. Line Noise Says:

    Rex’s comic “now i am hungry and…” is great.
    love the way it dovetails with your sand-witch comic this week.

    Time scales leading to communication problems.

  36. benS. Says:

    Communicating vessels?
    Eureka !!

    Kudos for not greeting in The Witches Language, or Greek, or whatever “no comprende”-ish language.

    A nice 24-hours project, or, maybe a week-long if we include planning:
    getting a shovel, E120-solution…perhaps new boots and so on.

    At least as satisfying as looking for Higgs among almost identical proton-collisions all day and night. So far…


    p.s. Recent project: I’ve just learnt to read 100+1 digits of pi from memory while tieing and untieing my shoes.

  37. Maximilian Says:

    A simple “Hi” might have saved some time.

  38. Concray Says:

    I justread through all your posted comic in one sitting. Just couldn’t help myself. I found myself simultaneously more amused and thoughtful the more I read.
    Yours is probably the best webcomic I’ve read in months. The art rocks, the writing rocks, the characters are just plain awesome. (Love the sphinx) πŸ˜€
    I’d heap a lot more praise at you, if I wasn’t so bad with words, and if your comic had not kept me up ’till four in the morning.

  39. Sam Says:

    I very much enjoyed this comic.

  40. EffKay Says:

    Enjoy your strip immensely but Sand Witch?

    Not enough Words! Nope not nearly enough!
    This strip just feels too quiet you know….
    Well relative to the rest after reading through the entire previous lot in one weekend.
    (not in one sitting … like that would be umm crazy?)

    Kidding.. Just giving you shite… I do dig Subnormality: You got a lot to say and using your chosen medium (web comic) is the challenge!

    Keep it up!

  41. Jesse Says:

    Wow, ok, I just gotta say this, thank you so much for making these comics. These truly make one wonder at such small things we take for granted, and how hard it can be for some people just to say Hello, an how sometimes all that inner courage and strength required for that small little thing is wasted, or overlooked by some people. Thank you

  42. Sinei Says:

    I love your work.
    When I started this comment I thought I would have more to say.
    Thank you for sharing.

  43. TF Says:

    I really like this one. Simple enough set-up, but with a surprisingly powerful message underneath.

    I shall soon be seeking your opinion regarding a webcomic I’d trying to write: I don’t know how, but the seemlessness and richness of detail in your comics gives me the impression that it would be easy. My brain is stupid. Please help me.


  44. Richter Says:

    Aw, cute witch is cute. πŸ™‚ That was beautiful.

    And the Sphynx fan art… DAYUM! Mad skills. If I has a lick of talent, I’d do one too.

  45. Bavette Says:

    Some people

    take a lot of time

    to say anything.

    And they only say

    what is worth

    taking a lot of time

    to say. :3

    • Ben Says:

      Ents typically… I suppose that’s why Rowntree takes a week or two to update. New theory, Winston is secretly Treebeard. ^_^

  46. mechagodzilla Says:

    I think it’s interesting that at this point in my life I naturally view the pink liquid she has as some sort of (maybe industrial) chemical, instead of identifying it as a ‘magic potion’ which would be more appropriate to the image.

  47. Aaron Says:

    This made me sad for the poor Sand Witch. When I see this I think about how fast the world moves, and the people we leave behind that don’t move as fast as we do. Just like your comic I think if we gave them a chance they’ll catch up to us.

    Thank you and keep doing what you want to do, Mr. Rowntree, and I’ll keep checking in!

  48. Deckhouse5 Says:

    I know this is off topic but I love your Coen Bros jokes on the new After Hours ep, especially Pregnant Lady Snow Cop. This is obvious but contribution is the main reason I watch the show.

    Asking too much for post of the pics?

  49. CitySquirrel Says:

    Some of your comics are so poignant. It is really quite lovely.

  50. hewhopacksawallop Says:

    I’m sorry, I don’t really get this one. So the witch is ignoring most attention from people in an effort to make a rather extravagant “hello” to the world, but how does that contain a message? If she wants to have friends or meet people, then why is it reasonable to do what she did? I don’t want to sound ignorant, and for the record I do love just about all of these comics, but this one just doesn’t mean much to me.

    • Ha, you don’t sound ignorant, don’t worry. Like Ian down there so eloquently put it, the comic’s to do with people communicating on different levels. Not everyone communicates best in the same way, nor can they help it, that’s all.

  51. Ian Says:

    Hello Winston πŸ™‚
    I hve read every single one of your comics, but this one is not like the rest. Unlike your normal fantastical, or just truthful engaging stories, This entry really does not have any veneer of comedy, just the simple and melancholy message of people communicating on different levels. This i can aprecciate full well because i have aspergers syndrome. I know some social skills, and at a glance i am indistinguishable from other people, but there is the occasional “i did not mean it like that at all” moment or something i thoughtninnocuous turning out to be a big deal. Because of this, i am introverted towards those i do not know. Like the guy above me said, you just need to get to know me.

    On a less somber note, i absolutely love Subnormality. I found it through cracked, and immediately i was hooked. I have read and reread the archives, just because there is nothing quite like the thoughtfulness and quality your strip provides anywhere else on the interwebs. In regards to the frequency of your updates, just do what you think is best; I would not mind if the updates are farther apart, I know anything you produce will be awesome.

  52. Call me Bun Says:

    huh.. I just read every single comic today and all the comments to this comic. The comics kind of fit the people haha. I liked the comics ;]

  53. Quidproquo Says:

    The sandwich is actually just playing minecraft and she doesn’t have a mice, so she shovels out messages in the sand πŸ˜€

  54. blackwatertown Says:

    Another fan here.
    Just posted your Creative Process map – with links back to you and credits of course.
    That OK by you?
    It’s at

  55. Alex Smith Says:

    just finished reading all your comics, love them all

    your email posted didn’t work for me btw, might want to fix that

    <3<3<3 keep it up!

  56. Sean Says:

    Every once in a while I click back to Fanboy Follies, just to remind myself of where the comic started. And then I remember the comic that got me into all this silliness and of course I can’t find it just by scrolling through the little dropdown box, and I figure it can’t be that far from the start. So I start clicking through the comics and eventually refind In Defense of Weird and hell if it still ain’t my absolute favourite Subnormality. A day later I’ve run out of comics to reread. This will get lost in the flood of positive feedback you inevitably receive, but I figured it can’t hurt to add to the tide. Yrs, a fan for 2 and a half years. How time flies.

    PS: Choose Your Own Adventure would be my favourite if Weird hadn’t resonated with me so well for so long.

  57. Dustin Says:

    Why didn’t the witch just write “Hi” instead? Seems like it would have saved a lot of time and effort

  58. V Says:

    I really really liked sand witch.

    I was surprised though- no sand witch/ sandwich pun? It seems almost too easy!

  59. Ken Says:

    Loved it. A beautiful illustration of impedance mismatch.

  60. Richard Says:

    The more truthful something is, the shorter the message needed to convey it is. As has been said by many people here, short and sweet is often more profound and more impactful. Thanks for your extremely thoughtful works ❀

  61. Mitchell D Says:

    Great, selfless things take time, but most are unwilling to wait that long

    That’s what I took

  62. Andrew So Says:

    the comic title made me hungry

  63. Stinsfire Says:


  64. Greasemonkey Says:

    . . is there anybody in there?
    Just nod if you can hear me
    Is there anyone at home?

    • Dark Phoenix Says:

      Come on now
      I hear you’re feeling down
      I can ease your pain
      Get you on your feet again

  65. aqua Says:

    this is adorable! and sad at the same time.

  66. tony Says:

    This makes me smile. its adorably sad

  67. Troy Says:

    Moral: You miss genuine organic interactions while overthinking simple parts of the social process?

  68. Swede Says:

    Hello the beach and the woman on it. Conversation will be slowed down if we decide to only communicate in a special, unique way. Also, special, unique people can have a harder time finding friends than mainstream, average people. That is a recurring theme in Winston’s art, or so it seems to me, anyway.

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