New comic for you. And here, some evidence of the author’s hand. I don’t know, maybe this is just a load of old, uh, goats, but oh well, too late now.
-wr
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Subnormality and some other stuff too.
New comic for you. And here, some evidence of the author’s hand. I don’t know, maybe this is just a load of old, uh, goats, but oh well, too late now.
-wr
October 28, 2010 at 10:12 pm
For some reason it hasn’t appeared on the homepage yet!
But I love it, as always. (: Good reminder of things to work on, things to appreciate.
October 28, 2010 at 10:34 pm
Very nice. I especially liked how they all had counterparts. Favorite probably is knows everything/nothing or tell/ask/listen.
Good stuff.
Bleat.
October 28, 2010 at 11:16 pm
Wow.
Can this one be a poster? It would really help me if I looked at this, in giant form, on my wall.
October 29, 2010 at 3:44 am
I completely agree! I’ve been saving my money for a poster from virus comics that truly and completely speaks to me, and this is it!
October 29, 2010 at 6:33 pm
I also want a poster of this one… so good.
October 29, 2010 at 8:24 pm
I don’t know, i’m not sure how i feel about this one just yet, plus it’s too late in the year to bring out new merchandise. The requests are appreciated though, i mean i’ll definitely consider it.
November 6, 2010 at 10:12 am
Please make this a poster! It’s perfect for my classroom and says most everything about maturity that I want them to understand. Another masterpiece!
October 28, 2010 at 11:17 pm
This made me really sad. I know the traits of immaturity and I know the ones that apply to myself and I try to be better but I just can’t seem to overcome my obstacles.
Great comic though. You should do a poster for it.
October 28, 2010 at 11:24 pm
Oh, and another thing. I particularly liked the subtlechanges in body language. Like the differences between the “knows his limits” goat and the “sees no flaws” goat.
October 29, 2010 at 6:34 pm
” I try to be better but I just can’t seem to overcome my obstacles.”
Recognising your obstacles is part of the process for overcoming them. Some people never get that far.
November 1, 2010 at 3:17 am
I think that life and humanity is in the climb. It’s how you grow
October 29, 2010 at 12:36 am
Great, with one exception: I don’t thin the “Blames self for world”-goat belongs on the mature top plateau. Seems rather ignorant and selfdestructive.
October 29, 2010 at 7:55 am
That one confused me as well. I think it contrasts with blames world for problems goat. I think either isn’t balanced. That’s one I struggle with – I tend to take everything on as a personal failure, and for me part of climbing to maturity is understanding what really isn’t in my control, and accepting that.
But yeah, yet another profound statement – I very much enjoyed exploring that one all over. I liked the goats on the climb as well because some of them were interacting with the ones on the bottom.
P.S. I do not claim to be completely mature!
October 29, 2010 at 8:27 am
Personally, I don’t think that blaming the world for your problems is immature at all.
You were a prisoner, slave to the will of others, for 18 years of your life. School and parents had almost complete control over you; you had very little choice how to spend your time, what to learn, and to an extent even who to hang out with. And suddenly at age 18 you’re supposed to be all responsible for your shortcomings?
No. It’s society’s fault, not yours. All the more true the younger you are.
October 29, 2010 at 1:44 pm
I think the point of that particular goat was more along the lines of “takes responsibilty for his actions/life-goat”
Of course I could be wrong.
October 29, 2010 at 8:27 pm
Yeah, my intent there was just kind of a personal responsibility thing, shaping the world one lives in and such. One is of course only so responsible for one’s world, but you gotta at least try. I reckon. And when i say “you,” i mean me, because i’m very much a slacker in this area, sadly.
November 2, 2010 at 9:09 am
I’m with the goat (He’s actually my favorite). A world for which we do not take personal responsibility stays screwed up forever. Taking responsibility is a good way to motivate ourselves to do some good, as long as we don’t let the inevitable depression get the best of us.
And anyway, living a “normal life” in the West usually implies considerable direct contributions to the world’s problems.
October 29, 2010 at 12:42 am
On certain days,I hit ‘em all.
Long way to go,but I’ll get there!
October 29, 2010 at 1:05 am
How is asking immature? Or he is there simply because he’s the counterpart of telling? I’m thinking he is because he’s white.
Love the colors and the rock detail.
It’s supa supa nice.
October 29, 2010 at 7:46 am
I think the asking goat is in the immature plateau because this comic is a snapshot that caught him at the exact point when he realizes it’s time to make the climb. All of the other goats in the immature area are pink, but he’s not. You can see by his facial expressions that he has some problems with the point of view being expressed, and so he’s changing color, “Pleasantville”-style, and his next step will be to start climbing.
October 29, 2010 at 8:28 pm
^what he said.^
November 2, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Further to that, it looks like the Asker got some sort of crap answer but may not have had the skills at the time to reason effectively with a blowhard (If it’s even possible). Asker went on to being Obessed with Questioning, and learned critical thinking skills needed to move on to being Obsessed with Facts.
October 29, 2010 at 2:14 am
Brilliant
October 29, 2010 at 2:27 am
Absolutely fantastic.
I’ve somehow managed to land right in between “Assumes Worst of Others” and “Assumes Nothing”. I try to be as sympathetic as possible (probably too much, really) and generally assume that people’s motivations are not their own, that they are propelled by neurosis and defense mechanisms so powerful that free will doesn’t exist for them. So even if they do horrible and immature things, there’s a perfectly good reason that they’ve resorted to these actions, right?
This probably files me under “Afraid”.
October 30, 2010 at 12:12 pm
Or obsessed with questioning.
October 29, 2010 at 3:16 am
This one really hit home with me. As someone who’s writing a novel, I really strive to be the “Isn’t afraid to fail” goat, but I feel like I’m still some combination of traits from the lower tier.
Amazing work as always Winston, really though provoking. You have the only webcomic I read, and it’ll probably stay that way.
October 29, 2010 at 3:21 am
This is really cool. You are awesome!
October 29, 2010 at 5:23 am
Whoop de doo, another lecture from Mr. Rowntree.
October 29, 2010 at 9:27 am
Would be better without the signs that say “this way to being a better person.” You don’t have to label everything, trust us more to get the message.
October 29, 2010 at 8:32 pm
Danni: It’s only a lecture if you just sit there and don’t say anything beyond “whoop de doo.”
Torint: So noted. Not respecting others’ intelligence as much as i could is one of the things that keeps me off the lofty green of maturity, i reckon. That and my paralyzing fear of failure…
October 29, 2010 at 5:52 am
A shame you’re still lingering at the bottom of the hill.
October 29, 2010 at 6:17 am
Finally! A simple and clear no-nonsense, no speaking in riddles guide to being mature! Love ya mate!
Though, I have to admit, I am guilty of some things in the pink zone. Guess that puts me somewhere in the middle, in the climb.
October 29, 2010 at 9:28 am
Wow.You are a wise man.Insightful comic ever.Thanks for creating this.
October 29, 2010 at 9:30 am
It’s funny, I like the message and the drawing but it is not really working for me as a comic… too busy or something. I think it would make a good poster though.
October 29, 2010 at 9:59 am
I want to frame this and hang it up for my kids to look at. Okay, and I probably need to reminding myself.
October 29, 2010 at 9:59 am
Wow, I would love to get this as a poster! It would be a great reference to some of lifes better and worse things to focus on
October 29, 2010 at 11:39 am
This! As a poster!
October 29, 2010 at 11:54 am
I would also really love this as a poster!
October 29, 2010 at 12:05 pm
But why is asking considered immature?
October 29, 2010 at 8:33 pm
It’s definitely not, see above.^^
October 29, 2010 at 9:59 pm
Oww oww, I get it now. Damn, why didn’t I notice that earlier? Must be going colorblind. LOL.
October 29, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Nice, it would be good to get a poster of this.
October 29, 2010 at 1:39 pm
So many goats..
October 29, 2010 at 1:43 pm
poster, PLEASE !!!
October 29, 2010 at 2:09 pm
Definitely a poster.
October 29, 2010 at 2:12 pm
While a number of the red ones are obviously non-adaptive/non-useful and some of the ones in green are adaptive/useful, several in both are just attitudes, which may or may not be called for, depending on the persons life experiences and situation, and some of them are just tastes. To assert otherwise is to assume that all persons must want the same things out of life, which is stupid and naive. Obviously there are certain core things that are useful and desirable for pretty much everyone but not all examples speak to these.
Additionally, when judging another, one should always be aware that an apparent external attitude may not jive with the actually held attitude.
November 3, 2010 at 9:31 pm
On the other hand, having any number of the green traits will make someone that much less of an insufferable asshole, even if they have a bunch of pink.
October 29, 2010 at 2:24 pm
The next thing I looked at was strangely relevant.
October 29, 2010 at 8:46 pm
I’ve definitely heard her discuss her book a couple of times, and i most assuredly agree with her realism, her anti-”The Secret” attitude, basically everything she says. So i guess i’d hate to think i was putting across a disturbing-levels-of-optimism, change-the-world-with-your-thoughts kind of attitude. What i was going for i think was the suggestion that maturity can be a deliberate process as opposed to something that’s just inevitable. I’m not gonna pretend the comic is perfect though; it was basically the best i could do right now, and i could see myself completely rewriting it five years from now. Thanks for linking to this video, by the way, totally enjoyed it!
November 1, 2010 at 7:40 am
Have you seen ‘Zeitgeist’? it’s just the same idea ! it looks less dangerous by drawing
October 29, 2010 at 5:36 pm
Needs a second axis for (external) Abuse, scaling (on the negative side) from minor irritation to oppression and torture, (and encouragement and enfranchisement on the positive side). There are discontinuities and holes you can fall into and can’t escape. Maybe there are solutions.
October 31, 2010 at 4:34 am
Look through the telescope on the top level, you’ll see them and many others through that
November 2, 2010 at 2:28 pm
oh word
October 29, 2010 at 6:42 pm
As usual good job Winston. I just have one question, mostly about your descriptions of objectivity and subjectivity. I always thought it was our subjectivity that made us human, and helped us understand others. Definitely knowing all the facts about something before you act is a must for insightful decision making, I’m not arguing that, but I guess turning everything into data is like seeing 27% oak and 73% maple instead of the proverbial forest. I know its just a little thing but I’d like to know your take on it, for my own learning if anything.
October 29, 2010 at 8:56 pm
You’re right to ask, because i always kind of use subjectivity in a purely negative sense, when you quite correctly state that it’s a positive thing when you look at it in another way. I would say i was defining it as “acting on personal bias,” whereas it can of course mean “having a particular perspective, often necessarily.” I should have been more careful, i think.
What say you, those reading this? What do you think of when you think of subjectivity?
October 29, 2010 at 9:17 pm
In response to the query about subjectivity.
To me it is more an state of keeping things in perspective. Although seeing other perspectives through the use of objectivity is necessary, it’s also vitally important to keep a grasp of reality. I’m not sure if this has much to do with the move to maturity. (Perhaps by learning to find a balance of the two?) That’s my two cents…
October 30, 2010 at 5:37 am
There’s opinion and there’s fact, and we all make decisions based on both. Sometimes it’s even necessary; if you can’t get all the facts, all you have is your preconceptions, so that’s what you use.
I think the trouble starts when we forget (or, more often, “forget”) whether we based a decision on fact or bias. So when new info arrives, our ears are stubbornly closed, even though we had no reason to be so sure in the first place.
October 30, 2010 at 12:28 pm
I think we don’t have enough time to analyze situations to be awesomely objective. Speaking for myself the best I can do is to refine my inherently subjective filter with an even-keeled awareness of my limitations. (EX: I DO-NOT know everything)
I try to find a balance between jumping to conclusions about others prematurely/incorrectly while realizing that I can never possibly tie up all loose ends in a purely objective way. If I waited for A-L-L of the facts, I’d have hesitated too long to act. . . for better or for worse. . . Being able to act at the risk of being wrong trumps hesitation. Just gotta learn from the bad calls/plays.
November 3, 2010 at 9:41 pm
If you have to jump to a conclusion, it might be best to land such that you can move again (Knows Nothing, Assumes Nothing).
October 29, 2010 at 8:42 pm
The “is built for climbing” one cracked me up.
October 30, 2010 at 1:07 pm
Oh god, I only just got that one. That’s rilly, rilly good.
November 3, 2010 at 9:48 pm
I…I didn’t get it. Clue me in maybe please?
November 27, 2010 at 2:11 am
It’s a goat. It’s built for climbing. Because it’s a goat.
October 29, 2010 at 8:56 pm
Thought provoking. I think that believing that any one of those traits equates to maturity is a little shortsighted – one can be “focused on friends” out of narcissism and insecurity rather than maturity, etc. Likewise, the “immature” behaviors by themselves are not necessarily indicative of psychological immaturity either.
The dividing line between the two conditions might work better with your depiction of sexuality in “monstrous discrepancies:” I’d argue that anyone who thinks they hold the monopoly on the truth and sees everything in black and white is immature… similar to labeling someone as “immature” based solely upon the fact that you find their demeanor inconvenient (as some of your other readers seem to believe in their comments…).
October 30, 2010 at 11:16 am
I think you have to accept it as a metaphor. Thus, the motivations of all the characters are truly pure and obvious. If you start trying to analyze the motivations of every goat, then obviously the metaphor breaks down.
October 29, 2010 at 9:34 pm
Is it normal to ascend and descend the climb, depending on the day?
October 31, 2010 at 12:49 pm
It had better be…
October 29, 2010 at 10:09 pm
After going through the whole archive, I’m really glad I discovered your comics. They are absolutely impressive and insightful.
On this one though I’m wondering why is the goat who died to win battles immature and the goat who won the war mature? One may win battles for right, justice and etc., yet lose because all is not within his/her own grasp.
Or the devil is in the details?
October 30, 2010 at 4:54 am
I reckon it’s not the actual role they played in the war, but their own perception of it. The bottom guy clearly let the whole thing get to him and can’t percieve it on any level other than the one that he was directly involved in. The top guy realized the role he played in the whole thing and I think it’s that awareness of his role in something much greater that puts him up top.
October 30, 2010 at 8:34 am
I saw the gravestones as being a sort of summation of the two worldviews. So immature goats might win a few minor victories (probably by being the loudest person in the argument, causing everyone else to give up, lol), but the mature goats “win the war” by living a much more fulfilling life and dying happy.
October 29, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Wow…just wow. amazing and insightful as always. keep up the good work.
I probably missed something, but some of these comics I would want to actually buy and hang them up to provoke thought and encourage self-improvement
October 30, 2010 at 1:57 am
Dear sir, you are awesome. : ) That is all!
October 30, 2010 at 2:33 am
When I first saw this, I thought that the ‘Knows nothing’ goat was referring to someone who spends their whole life in books, never experiencing life directly and thus, never truly knowing anything.
After seeing the goat on the lower plateau I realised that wasn’t the case.
October 30, 2010 at 3:54 am
great has always… and has always very true… keep up the good work d(^_^)b
October 30, 2010 at 4:22 am
someone’s a little obsessed about a certain rapper’s recent fanciful fancies.
November 1, 2010 at 3:10 am
Fanciful fancies? We can forgive you for the typo
October 30, 2010 at 4:22 am
sorry, i meant upset, not obsessed. that was an odd typo.
October 30, 2010 at 5:28 am
Thanks for posting the comic without the tedious apologies for lateness!
October 30, 2010 at 6:43 am
Sheep go to heaven! Goats go to Hell!
This comic goes on awesome, thanks Winston!
October 30, 2010 at 7:36 am
Are you holding out on us? Your maturity spectrum only has the “RoyG” part. Where’s “Biv”? Do the goats that aren’t content with maturity transcend to the blue or find the clarity of indigo? Personally, I like the idea of a kind of maturity overshoot up the mountain a bit. I have a feeling you could do a pretty interesting critique of “transcendence”. As usual, thanks for an entertaining and thought-provoking comic!
October 30, 2010 at 8:58 am
Ooh, very interesting.
I have been called mature for my age, but I do tend to get into depressive ruts (blaming the world, feeling scared, thinking I know everything, etc.) Luckily I’m a pretty good climber (to use the comix analogy) and I have my better moments, I think.
This comic really does help in understanding one’s personality. I’m against labelling people, but the large variety of different traits shown means one person can identify with more than one… er, goat.
I like goats.
Well done, Winston.
October 30, 2010 at 11:55 am
I feel like the goat that “does it anyway.”
October 30, 2010 at 12:42 pm
Thanks for the great comics Winston, they’ve really become my goat to place for a bit of introspection and thinking. (Apologies in advance bad pun).
October 30, 2010 at 1:00 pm
I like it!
October 30, 2010 at 1:12 pm
Can I just take a moment to say how amazing virus comix is. And one of the things that really makes it amazing is not that the comics are so awesome (they are), but the huge emphasis on audience participation. Reading these comments brings so much more to the experience. Also, the incredible amount of talent that goes into the comics might have something to do with it as well.
October 30, 2010 at 1:15 pm
Just linked to this on Facebook with the comment, ‘I think that webcomics are the fora of our new philosophers.’ Well done. ..bruce..
October 30, 2010 at 6:45 pm
I wasn’t terribly impressed with this one. It would have been way, way better without all the labels, for one thing.
October 31, 2010 at 1:03 pm
I actually thought about doing that, but in the end i wanted to emphasize the contrasting-things, this-as-opposed-to-that aspect of it, thus necessitating words. Suggesting that respecting others’ intelligence is the opposite of being dishonest, etc. That’s my rationalization, anyway.
November 3, 2010 at 10:00 pm
This one’s too visually busy to work without the tiny labels. Otherwise, contrasting goats would have to be much closer together for the sequence to be noticeable, which would have been too much like Monster Discrepancies. It fits with the whole concepts-are-the-landscape surreality Winston has going here anyway.
The only tiny change I’d make is maybe replacing the ‘subjectivity’ on the sign with ‘delusion’, since the crime is reflexively defending one’s own ignorance and frailty rather than just having a different perspective.
October 31, 2010 at 12:59 am
ive been wanting to send this comment for a long as time. but would you marry me? i want you to have my babies. jokes aside kinda, i like how the comics are more simplified. It makes it faster for me to read and understand, but its also cuz im too lazy to read alot of text. also nice goats =]
October 31, 2010 at 1:01 pm
I’m guessing you’re alluding to certain recent webcomic events with the will-you-marry-me/babies thing. The unwelcome comments that I get are the ROWNTREE YOU LIBERAL FEMINAZI I HOPE YOU DIE IN A FIRE AND ALL YOUR READERS TOO YOU ARE THE WORST PEOPLE ON EARTH ones, as opposed to sexual advances. You get used to it, whether you should have to or not; takes about three years.
October 31, 2010 at 7:04 am
This is freaking brilliant, Winston. Well-drawn, thought-provoking, funny and clever. I’m going to bookmark this as a reference for maturity =P
October 31, 2010 at 8:31 am
completely agree, sometimes i’d forgot it, thanks to remind me i’m climbing the montain!!
October 31, 2010 at 1:29 pm
A hill with things you don’t like about people, and a hill with things you do like about people. How deep. Truly I just needed a venn diagram with circles labeled ‘mature’ and ‘immature’ to figure out what was good and bad.
Wait, no. Sorry for being sarcastic, but I disagree that things are that simple. For instance, ‘Focuses on differences’ is in the immature circle and I think the differences in people are why we need other people. It comes off as preachy, not really helpful.
November 3, 2010 at 10:09 pm
That particular dichotomy is about accepting people (despite or maybe because of their flaws) instead of making a fuss over someone’s nose hairs or political views.
I also want to go on the record as saying that goats are more entertaining than Venn diagrams.
October 31, 2010 at 7:31 pm
Here we have two parallel landscapes. A really nice green one (A) with nice wise guys and gals. Think Eden!
The other, brown one (B), is more like the backyard of a shabby motel. Well, …perhaps minus a 30 year old rusting Trabant.
To get from B to A before confronted with the final divine string-music: take the wormhole – and don’t forget your new, blank slate*.
* Tabula rasa thesis
ben
November 1, 2010 at 3:08 am
I am so glad I stumbled upon your site. It’s not often that a comic makes you cry, but that’s how profoundly you affect people. Me, at least.
I just wanted to let you know that your insight, presented simply, with a little humour and color, speaks strongly to me.
November 1, 2010 at 5:18 am
Just bloody brilliant. I could not agree more. I’ve preached these sort of virtues for ages haha. Showed this comic to a few friends that ought to make the climb and I thoroughly enjoyed seeing the realization dawn on their faces. I’ve read all of the Subnormality Comics and I only just realized I have never before left a comment. Please accept this blanket note of praise. Damn near every single comic has been enjoyable, well-thought out, and beautifully drawn. I look forward to each and every comic to come. Please, if there are more works of yours that I may ogle at, let me know
November 1, 2010 at 5:48 am
I don’t need to listen to this- I’m the most modest guy there is. More fuckin modest than the rest of you.
November 1, 2010 at 6:03 am
That was full of win on so many levels. The job on the colors, the crispness of the details, the goats’ facial expressions and body language. The readability of this one through the roof. Absolutely beautiful. +1 vote for poster material.
Side note : was happy to see 90% of my goats are on the mature side. Glad I kickstarted my climb a few years back. I can already die happy.
Side note 2 : Winston, about the labels and signposts; I didn’t feel it’s all about trusting the reader’s intelligence. Parts of it, yes, but with the kind of material you do, it’s a difficult thing to balance. What will be too much info, what will be not enough? Etc…
Take those 1-panel political cartoons or caricatures. They’ll draw, say, Harper as a monkey, but they’ll also write “conservative” on his tie, or writing “capitalism” on a pig’s tuxedo. Now that is babysitting the reader, taking him by the hand, etc. You have more content in your images, so you probably have a tougher act to balance.
Also, having many little signs everywhere gives the comic a “Where’s Waldo” feeling. I enjoy having a million little details to look at and those signposts and labels add to the pleasant visual overload.
November 1, 2010 at 1:54 pm
This comic made me feel guilty, like so many others of yours; I am pretty much living in the pink at the moment.
Bah.
November 1, 2010 at 4:34 pm
Loved it for the one dichotomy alone:
“Blames world for self…/….blames self for world”
November 1, 2010 at 4:36 pm
POSTER! NOW!
November 1, 2010 at 4:41 pm
GIANT POSTER! NOW!
November 1, 2010 at 5:50 pm
@Lisa
“I think the differences in people are why we need other people”. How deep.
November 1, 2010 at 7:40 pm
I just have to say:
HOLY CRAP YOU ARE A GENIUS WITH COMICS AND CONTENT.
I just got done blowing through your archives and wonder why I never found this earlier. Witty, uplifting, snarky and intelligent, this here comic be. It isn’t enough that it’s smart, but can cheer you right back up, like this goat comic today.
Do you accept awed, subservient groveling at your feet or do you allow us to partake in your talented wit and glory like a benevolent deity?
November 1, 2010 at 7:57 pm
I’m pretty sure you have the best comic on the internet at this point. I especially like ones like this that give me a fresh new perspective on things, particularly myself.
My favorite dichotomy in this comic is Entitled/Grateful.
November 1, 2010 at 8:41 pm
Only one thing I disliked. Blaming yourself for the state of the world is no more mature than blaming the world for yourself. They’re both unrealistic and immature views. I see where you’re coming from, but I disagree.
November 1, 2010 at 9:31 pm
I saw myself in every one of those goats.
November 1, 2010 at 10:30 pm
I would like a poster of this one please. Can I send Canada money in an envelope?
November 2, 2010 at 1:26 am
i believe subjectivity is the basis for individuality and humanity. biases are simply a method of evaluating and ordering our entropic universe, giving ourselves an identity and purpose in a world of 6 billion+ opinions.
November 2, 2010 at 1:54 am
With all sincerity, I like to count how many i resemble on both sides. then, the winning side reveals itself due to a number of goats; therefore i see how i am feeling at the moment. I find out where i am at in life. Good or bad. It all depends on my number of goats that represent opposite states of mind. I must leave now, for i have to go purchase some alfalfa and grains. Thank you to the artist, for this was an interesting and….fun.
November 2, 2010 at 3:36 am
I wish I could say I’m entirely at the top, but I am missing some important goats..
Superb, needs to be a poster!
November 2, 2010 at 3:43 am
AH. The thing I just realised it’s missing is “Thinks it’s about being serious all the time” and “Knows how to have fun”. There’s nothing more immature than some lifeless, bitter asshole who calls everyone who tries to enjoy themselves “immature”.
November 2, 2010 at 7:47 am
Well said and well represented:)
November 2, 2010 at 7:49 am
Definitely one of my favourites of yours, Mr Rowntree. Thankyou
November 2, 2010 at 9:46 am
Once again – introspective, brilliant and jsut what I needed. I have to say the most interesting moment in my life was when I realised I know nothing. It opens so many doors in the mind.
November 2, 2010 at 10:08 am
Almost forgot. This is so brilliant it should be one of yours, Winston.
http://player.vimeo.com/video/11238405Fallen from Sascha Geddert on Vimeo.
November 2, 2010 at 11:13 am
Winston, I seriously think you’re the fucking best. I might like you better than I like Gaiman.
Side note, have you been working on any other side projects or graphic novels? I loved Captain Estar….
November 2, 2010 at 12:58 pm
I think it’s not about balancing saying more versus saying less. It’s about creating a rich experience for the reader and leaving space for the reader to think their own thoughts. In this case, I think the explicit labeling of all the goats makes for a richer reader experience, since it allows me to really ponder each goat as a symbol of something in my life, rather than as a picture of a goat. Labeling the axis was good too, since it helps me ponder what all the green goats have in common, and what all the red goats have in common.
In response to “Blames self for world”, I think it was cool but I see why some people don’t. I would phrase it differently. Basically, the world is what we make it, so we all have to think about what we want to make it into. We can’t blame ourselves for the whole thing, but we do have a duty to work on some small corner of it. It might be more accurate to say “Blames self and everyone else for the world”, but that sounds too much like the corresponding red goat. “Holds self responsible for a corner of the world” is probably closest.
November 12, 2010 at 9:13 pm
You put that perfectly. If people don’t get it, it’s because they’re not thinking about it, they’re not recreating it in their own mind and thinking “Now, what does THAT mean?”. Instead, they take simple labels and accept them at that, instead of the ramifications of what they actually meant. See, this comic is actually supposed to make you think, unlike other comics. People aren’t used to that.
November 2, 2010 at 8:02 pm
This is another one I want as a poster! Beautiful!
November 3, 2010 at 2:11 am
just finished reading through your comics so far and i gotta say, love them all, most of them made me laugh and all of them made me think, your a true artist keep up the good work *thumbs up*
November 3, 2010 at 4:22 am
soo true its like adolescence to early adult hood, i’m going to show this to my brother now haha
November 3, 2010 at 9:33 am
Yo may already be aware of this, but I think the viruscomix site is down.
November 3, 2010 at 9:48 am
Yeah, the server is having technical difficulties unfortunately. With any luck things should be resolved soon. Fingers crossed…
November 3, 2010 at 12:26 pm
How many artists contribute to subnormality? I know Winston Rountree is an alias, and I can’t help but notice a few different styles over the comix series. Just curious
. Love almost all of the comix.
November 5, 2010 at 11:17 am
I am the only contributor until i can track down an Infinite Number of Monkeys to take over the writing duties. I’ve already got a hold of an Infinite Number of Typewriters and a Near-Infinite Amount of Paper, and Rather a Lot of Desk Lamps, and a snack table with A Few Things of Instant Coffee.
November 6, 2010 at 12:52 pm
Bows.
November 3, 2010 at 1:51 pm
I love this one.
November 3, 2010 at 5:02 pm
Wow, Well I guess this is the last one. I have officially read every comic on this site. I really love your sense of humor.
November 3, 2010 at 5:17 pm
Nice glasses ‘look at me’ goat. They suit you.
Although to be fair, I think he’s gotten better about it…
November 3, 2010 at 6:26 pm
This strip is now my favorite. Not only does it use the basis of my family name (“Cabrera”) but also it highlights the struggle that I have personally gone through.
November 3, 2010 at 7:35 pm
I’ve liked most of your comics so far, and even when I thought you were moralizing a little, I didn’t really mind it because your presentation was entertaining and interesting. Unfortunately, this comic is all moralizing and no entertainment. To be honest, I would have preferred it if you had just had two columns of bullet points, one of them labeled “IMMATURE TRAITS” and one of them “MATURE TRAITS”, because at least then I wouldn’t be reminded of those stereotypical “THOSE FUCKERS, OUR SHIT” political cartoons. I’m not even going to get into the philosophical/ethical merits of this comic, because whether or not I agree with you does not matter so much to me as whether there is any reason to read Subnormality other than to find out about your latest musings.
November 3, 2010 at 8:21 pm
I liked it. But I disagree with your “asks”. While people that ask too much are annoying, I think that asking questions is really important. You can listen all you want, but you need to ask questions in general and to people more knowledgeable than yourself.
November 5, 2010 at 10:16 am
Like i mentioned above, “asks” is a different color because asking is good. Asking is good!!
November 3, 2010 at 10:10 pm
Inspired as always, Winston.
November 3, 2010 at 10:40 pm
If the brilliant social awareness behind your work could be distilled into liquid form, I would work for two years for a shot of it.
November 3, 2010 at 10:45 pm
Hey! Just found your site on stubleupon and love it! Please keep up the great inspirational work!
November 4, 2010 at 4:09 am
Sooo … we are goats?
November 4, 2010 at 6:09 am
yes
November 5, 2010 at 6:05 pm
But it’s not all baaaaaad.
November 4, 2010 at 1:00 pm
Poster pls kthanxbye!
November 4, 2010 at 8:14 pm
I LOVE this! Recently I have been having alot of conversations about maturity so this is totally perfect timing. And I work on a goat farm! Totally win all around for me
November 4, 2010 at 9:58 pm
This is great. You seem to be quite reflective in your latest comics, so the lateness is forgiveable
(I’m always happy to see an update, however rare!) And for me personally, the timing is suitable; I’ve been struggling with the fact that I have to grow up, and I feel exactly like the yellow goats, hesitating as I look back. I’d like this as a poster.
November 5, 2010 at 9:06 am
That one in the bottom left, most to the bottom left, that’s you that is.
Also: people who feel fear are immature? That’s big warning flag right there that you don’t take life lessons from preachy webcomics.
November 5, 2010 at 10:14 am
Ha, you accidentally a word in the last sentence there. Oh, and everyone feels fear, it’s the people who go on despite their fear who progress. Maybe i should have worked that into the comic. Oh wait, i did.
/snide response
November 5, 2010 at 3:06 pm
“Scorns other peoples efforts” much Warren?
Poster of this would be awesome!
November 12, 2010 at 9:09 pm
I think Winston deserves a “Bazinga!” there.
November 5, 2010 at 6:58 pm
holy shit, I almost completely missed the asking *white* goat… o0
whoever expects from a comic his salvation should rather learn how to read comics
whoever expects from a comic no salvation
should rather learn how to read comics
November 5, 2010 at 11:10 pm
you ever watch Archer? Lana Kane looks like your work.
http://www.tvguide.com/tvshows/archer/photos/298243/45592
November 6, 2010 at 1:10 pm
If this one is made into a poster, I will gladly buy it!
November 7, 2010 at 8:53 am
[Rainier Wolfcastle]
The website! It does nothing!
[Rainier Wolfcastle]
November 7, 2010 at 3:08 pm
Work at an elementary school, this is something I will hang in my 5th grade classroom or give to all of them! Great work, love to see more!
November 8, 2010 at 1:34 pm
I agree with the goatrait, this one is brilliant.
November 8, 2010 at 2:08 pm
This is so well done. Excellent work. I’ve shared it with my office already. Keep up the good work.
November 9, 2010 at 11:35 am
WAITING FOR THE UPDATE…
This weekly super-comix, mostly updated every fortnight, relentlessly spreading all over the globe like rings on clusterfucked waters, may very well do it again…
Nohurry ben.
November 9, 2010 at 1:35 pm
Hi! I’ve just recently discovered this site a couple of months ago. I was linked directly to the Monstrous Discrepancies comic, your comics make quite a bit of sense to me, and I’m happy to be able to find a comic that can help me discover or rediscover the world and how it really works. For that, thank you. I, am, hooked.
Anyways, to the point. I was wondering if you would make a poster for the Maturity Climb. And if so, would I be able to get a deal if I bought both Monstrous Discrepancies and The Maturity Climb.
Thanks for your time
Oh, one last thing, would you mind explaining the last panel of Choose Your Own Adventure. Why are you referencing the three monkeys, I feel I’m missing something big.
November 9, 2010 at 1:58 pm
Hey, I’m the guy who quit reading Subnormality when you deleted his comment about how Captain Estar is NOT the Book of Mormon. However, having downed an entire bottle of Bailey’s (on sale at Sainsbury’s, his place of employment) he is unable to stop himself from indulging in sheer indulgence. He has to admit, the recent comick is Really Good(TM).
November 9, 2010 at 7:22 pm
loved this comic!
November 11, 2010 at 1:46 pm
I like your stuff a lot. It really hits me sometimes harder than I would like but never the less I thank you for your comics.
November 12, 2010 at 11:40 am
This is wonderful. Most people I assume, including myself, can identify with a lot of the goats on more than one level. Thanks for the insights.
November 12, 2010 at 1:39 pm
Your website is awesome….
November 13, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Genius!
November 13, 2010 at 5:27 pm
love it
November 13, 2010 at 10:53 pm
simply awesome!
November 14, 2010 at 4:04 am
Want to put tthis up in classroom at school for the students to think about!
November 17, 2010 at 11:16 am
Hey Winston,
I just wanted to ask if you would be ok if I reprinted this comic for myself?
November 18, 2010 at 12:23 am
I’ve always deferred to the wisdom of goats.
November 20, 2010 at 6:51 pm
Really intriguing…
November 21, 2010 at 5:40 pm
Brilliant…
November 22, 2010 at 1:59 pm
Ha! I didn’t even see this one until I just went through some unchecked RSS feeds. Great to have something like this posted on my birthday
I can really see my own growth over the past years there, too. Make a poster of this and I will buy it.
November 22, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Fantastic!
Can you please make this into a poster?
I will buy one for home and one for work!
Thank you!
Signed: Pink goat with a slight streak of green
November 22, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Focusing a bit more on the content, now, I find that I don’t agree with everything on The Climb. Shocking, I know! I think it may be not so much disagreement as pedantry on word choice and the like. “Blames self for the world” is pointlessly negative. I think I see what you’re trying to express, but I’d rather see that as “Takes responsibility for the world” or somesuch – a much more active phrase, too! One very important thing to note, I believe, is that the attitudes and behaviours on the red end don’t necessarily make anyone a bad person. “Can’t admit responsibility” is a weakness rather than an error in your ways.
I don’t claim to be perfectly mature and know all about it – just my two cents going by how I’ve seen stuff happen over the years
Oh, and my favorite set of goats: “Scorns others’ efforts” -> “Scorns indolence” -> “Wants to help”.
June 4, 2013 at 11:39 am
I am with you, I kept looking at the image trying to understand the reason for him. Blaming yourself for the problems in the world not not mature. It is egotistical.
I would say something like “realizes the world doesn’t revolve around him.” Would have been the counter balance.
November 22, 2010 at 7:32 pm
Gotta say I don’t think that blaming self for the world is exactly a sign of maturity…
Maybe I am reading it wrong but I don’t think that is a good mindset to be in and to be honest I think by being in that mind set people can make some pretty immature decisions.
Other then that I think its a great poster.
November 27, 2010 at 2:03 am
I think it’s more like they’re accepting that they have a part in what happens in the world, if they want to change it then they need to start with themselves not others, taking responsibility for actions, ya know?
It just came out weird cuz it’s supposed to be a mirror image of the ‘blames world for problems’ thing
November 26, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Is the Maturity comic with the goats available in poster form? I really need this for my office, both for myself and others.
Very clever
November 29, 2010 at 3:49 am
Hi,
I hope you don’t mind me posting this link on facebook. I’m a big fan of your work. If you do mind, though, let me know and I’ll take it down.
Cheers.
December 4, 2010 at 7:24 pm
awesome!!
i wish more people were making art that helped change the way people are- for the better!
December 4, 2010 at 9:10 pm
this is awesome!
December 5, 2010 at 10:42 am
Awesome,i like it a lot
December 6, 2010 at 11:59 am
excellent. humbling, inspirational. funny.
December 6, 2010 at 1:45 pm
Beautiful.
December 6, 2010 at 10:15 pm
Well done!
December 7, 2010 at 6:51 am
Wow, how true. Looking at this comics, I feel that I wasn’t very mature this past ten years and I feel that I still have got a lot to do to make myself a mature person.
December 11, 2010 at 2:46 pm
I would also really like this comic as a poster. Then I wouldn’t have to keep looking it up every few days. I love it.
December 27, 2010 at 5:50 pm
This comic should be made available as a poster.
January 1, 2011 at 8:09 pm
All good,except ‘blames self for world’. That belongs on the bottom tier.
January 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm
Not enough words in the thesaurus with more than four letters to say how much I like this…
January 23, 2011 at 8:42 pm
This should be on the wall of every teenager’s room.
February 1, 2011 at 1:36 am
Fantastic ……
February 9, 2011 at 7:36 pm
Hey, you’ve made this into a poster! Cool!
If you makeit into a T-shirt, can you sell it as a goat-tee? Free idea, take it.
February 12, 2011 at 1:42 am
That’s good stuff man.
February 10, 2011 at 6:23 pm
Thank you so much for this, dude.
February 11, 2011 at 7:09 pm
I blame the world for some of my problems, The world is an evil place!!!
What’s wrong with asking…? Nothing!!!
Responsibility is nothing!!!
When I “have to be right” I AM right!!!!
ALL RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I AM immature
February 12, 2011 at 1:41 am
This is GREAT!!!! Covers just about everybody.
February 13, 2011 at 4:14 pm
i just had to comment on this!!
FREAKIN’ BRILLIANT!!!
February 20, 2011 at 9:41 am
How can you die happy there? Am I the only one who wants to climb to the top of the mountain? If maturity isn’t on top, what is on top?
February 20, 2011 at 12:58 pm
the top…? maturity…? No… maturity is worthless…! That often mean getting boring…. and I have no reason to mature… I… am already dead inside… The only light comes from…….. her, my only friend, whom I love… But she… does not love me that way…. No, I hate maturity……….
March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am
Mankinds ideals, maybe God if you’re into that sort of thing
March 1, 2011 at 5:27 am
I love this dearly
March 6, 2011 at 10:08 am
Yeah. This should be a poster.
March 7, 2011 at 6:25 am
I believe the “Obsessed with facts” goat should have been placed somewhere else or just simply removed.
More often than not being obsessed with facts closes your mind to many things.
March 10, 2011 at 3:26 pm
Because immature people don’t read much and need visual aids. Brilliant.
March 10, 2011 at 3:49 pm
Tsk… I am highly immature… However, I read very much…. visual aids…. wahahahaha hahahahaha whahahahaha… that’s all….
March 23, 2011 at 2:57 am
Awesomeness!
March 23, 2011 at 8:54 am
looooooove it!!!
LOL
March 27, 2011 at 4:57 am
I would love this as a poster
April 27, 2011 at 2:31 am
I don’t you have this in a fit tee size medium?
May 16, 2011 at 11:36 pm
Please! Please. Please? Make the full “Maturity Climb” poster a comic!.?
I will purchase it. I went in search of the “TAKE MY MONEY” button but can’t find it.
May 17, 2011 at 2:06 pm
can you PLEASE give us a poster version WITHOUT the text ? I reaaaaaaaly want to translate this to dutch for my kids !
May 18, 2011 at 10:56 pm
The goat marked “Tells” ought to be labeled “Talks AT others”. The goat marked “Asks” ought to be labeled “Hears but doesn’t listen” (and be colored pink).
June 15, 2011 at 10:06 am
I don’t actually get it! Can someone please explain the entire poster to me? I know that it’s about maturity but I don’t actually get the whole thing? SO Pleaseee explain it to me!
June 18, 2011 at 11:40 am
It’s saying that the green goats are more mature due to the traits that they have: Empathy, self-control, objectivity, and prevention
The pink goats are immature due to their: complacence, subjectivity, and revenge.
June 21, 2011 at 12:36 pm
How is “obsessed with facts” mature…?
July 5, 2011 at 7:55 pm
Brilliant!
September 12, 2011 at 9:52 pm
Just a note to say that I bought this as a poster, and it’s hanging on the inside of the toilet door. I’ve got two girls and a wife, and the time they spend in there hopefully will trickle in the wisdom of this fantastic poster! Thanks, Virus!
September 26, 2011 at 1:28 am
true … cant comment further …
November 10, 2011 at 11:38 am
I am a high school teacher, and I plan on purchasing this as a poster (unless you want to contribute to the educational world by sending me a free one.) I already shared it with my colleagues and one of my classes and they loved it. Thank you.
November 12, 2011 at 7:40 pm
Genius!
January 18, 2012 at 9:50 pm
To Paul Friedman, who said: “The goat marked “Asks” ought to be labeled “Hears but doesn’t listen” (and be colored pink).”
That goat is yellow because it’s starting to be ready to climb the hill; it is not just absorbing what it’s told, but questioning even things that are presented as “fact”. The first day you stop simply accepting what you hear at face value is one of the first steps to true individuality and maturity.
And in case it wasn’t clear from how much I thought about the content of this poster, I adore it. It brought tears to my eyes, and when I have a bit more funds I’ll be getting a poster of it and #133 (Weird). Thank you again (and again!) for sharing your weird, wise and wonderful ideas and images with the world through Subnormality!
Light and laughter,
SongCoyote
March 18, 2012 at 1:56 pm
Amazing! I never thought goats could teach me to be more mature about myself!
March 19, 2012 at 3:08 pm
Nice.
March 28, 2012 at 8:20 am
That hurt…
I recognize myself in many of the pink goats.
You do great work. Keep going!
April 5, 2012 at 9:36 am
I was sad that it ended so quickly. What is atop of the next plateau?
April 16, 2012 at 11:43 am
I like this “Big-Time”!
May 10, 2012 at 4:55 pm
Whoever did this graphic, is a genius. It’s a complete life lesson in a nutshell. To those who discover that you are among the red goats: admitting it is half the battle. The key is to always want to improve yourself, to become a better person.
May 20, 2012 at 8:39 pm
I grew up seeing this in my elementary school…
Now that I’ve been introduced to your work I’m amazed that such a wonderful artist made something that turned out to be one of the influences of my childhood. Thanks!
May 30, 2012 at 8:05 pm
I saw parts of myself in all of these guys! I aspire to reach for the top rung, though. Thanks…really profound. My 11 yr. old son thought it was cool, too. Keep up the creative spirit!
June 2, 2012 at 12:25 am
This is great. My brother showed it to me and I reposted it (with the appropriate link of course) on Facebook. Keep it up and God bless u more
September 26, 2012 at 8:30 pm
how can i use this on my website, i tried to buy a poster, but it forces me to buy a lot of other posters, i don’t want, help, i’d like to provide proper attribution to help you
October 9, 2012 at 11:29 pm
I’m not sure obsessed with facts is that good. I myself am quite focused on the facts, but there has to be some leeway.
October 12, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Personally I think any kind of obsession is unhealthy, so I don’t think being “obsessed with facts” would really be so mature, maybe focusing on facts instead of obsessing over them would be a better use of words.
Either way, I really like how you represened all this dicotomies, makes you think. *nods*
January 26, 2013 at 4:08 pm
am I the only one not sure where it started?????
April 6, 2013 at 1:28 am
…illustration for a 12-step program.
June 4, 2013 at 4:15 am
Why does the winner always die?